Jun 1, 2010

Nightspinner Woes

I want to get some feedback from all you Eldar players out there about our less-than-shiny new toy. We have a great new kit that allows us to build the Nightspinner, but is it even worth it competitively?

Image from Games Workshop
Let me digress, I think that it is awesome that we finally have this kit in plastic, and I'm even more enthusiastic that it looks similar to the Forgeworld designs; it is a beautiful model in my opinion, and I plan to make plenty of use out of it.

My problem is what they have done rules wise with the Nightspinner, and I believe that Games Workshop has made another collosal mistake here.

The Nightspinner has an interesting gun, but like the Fire Prism, it only takes a single weapon destroyed result to limit it back to a contesting sled and using the chin gun. Now, I'm not here to argue about the weaponry in particular, but rather what they've done with placing it in the Force Chart.

As every Eldar player knows, the Heavy Support section in our book is rather heavily populated right now, and unlike the newer books, our vehicles can't be taken in squadrons. So now we are faced with another choice among Falcons, Fire Prisms, and the lot. Mind you, I don't think that every option is appealing, but it is a rather crowded section that is in demand.

I think the Nightspinner would have fit its role a lot better in the Fast Attack section, where the Codex is already the weakest. It would allow the Eldar players to take the Nightspinner without affecting the Heavy Support section choices. Not only that, but think of how many more kits Games Workshop would be able to sell if people were using the same kit to make 6 choices on the Force Chart instead of 3 -- I know that I would be getting more models.

I really hope that the new Eldar Codex streamlines the Heavy Support section, making weaker units better, and overall, making the section cleaner. We have Falcons, Fire Prisms, Wraithlords, Dark Reapers, Support Weapons, and now the Nightspinner all bidding for being a pick in our force (granted, not all choices I see as being equally worthy of our scrutiny). If they would have left the transport ability with the Nightspinner so it could carry a scoring unit so it could barrage the enemy and grab objectives, it might have been in serious contention for a Falcon.

As is, the Nightspinner is a pretty nice alternative, but I can't really see it replacing my Fire Prisms. I'm going to do lots of testing with it in order to see if it is worth the trouble of putting together the weapons on my new tanks which ironically will require putting together those weapons.

One thing it has done is give me a new basis for the Void Spinner that I will be converting up from a Forgeworld Scorpion Type II and the new kits. I can finally get to work on doing up the datasheet for it and play some games of Apocalypse.


Apollo June 1, 2010 at 11:07 PM  

Up in the city where I usually game, I've been seeing less and less FA sued in armies. Not sure if this is just the trend in the area, or if it's happening everywhere else, but the lists are seeing that aspect disappear. I'm the only Tau player in the area who actually has Pirahnas. If this is the case elsewhere too, Games Workshop really should take notice and start making FA units better so people will want to use them (I'm looking at YOU, Vespids) and BUY them.

Karnstein June 2, 2010 at 6:43 AM  

I don't think the placement is wrong. I'm also not sure if GW would have sold more kits that way. Most people on the net are part of the "omg, it's crap because it can't kill a raider" crowd, so they wouldn't buy a third kit anyway. The rest either don't give a damn about "efficiency over style" or have enough hybrid or foot slogging armies in their surrounding to justify fielding it anyway.

I also think fluff-wise they did it right. The weapon matches the edition 2 description (old eldar codex) and I don't think a barrage/suppression tank should be fast attack. It is a support weapon, so Heavy support sounds fine to me.

The eldar codex is kind of outdated anyway, with tanks feeling kind of overpriced and loyalist stealing the "best psyker of the universe" crown.

Now let's just imagine GW borrows from the tyranids and Blood Angels codices. Make WL troops if you field large squads of WG (and give us a plastic kit for those + new rules/price tag) like the terma-tervigon trick from the nid-codex. Then steal from the BA codex and turn all transport vehicles into dedicated supports. You could go a step further and transfer walkers into FA, which would fit them very nicely anyway. A light scouting/harassing walker isn't a heavy support unit in my book anyway.

Making the falcon a dedicated transport would also get rid of the "harlis in a tank" trick. If you really want them to strike fast&hard, just add the venom into the codex again. Which would also be a nice way for GW to redo the vyper chassis.

Silar June 2, 2010 at 11:37 AM  

Pretty much agree with everything karnstein said. It's in the right section for sure.
I think Eldar have some of the most unit packed sections in any codex, which is great =). That is until you reach FA, which I find funny as Eldar are known for speed and here we have the least packed section.
I feel if warwalkers became FA people would field 9 of them all the time. Also Falcons as a transport again for aspects would be cool and it frees up the HS slot again for Prisms and Nightspinners.

As a side note I used one yesterday (proxy). And it was fun. It wasn't the greatest toy out there but it was fun to put Spiderman tokens next to webbed units =)

Karnstein June 2, 2010 at 12:30 PM  

I don't think people would field 9xww if they were FA in the new dex. why?

1. 480 points if we talk about SL walkers are nothing to laugh at, if you also want to fill the HS slots.

2. Nobody knows if and how GW will change rules&point costs for spiders, spears, hawks and vypers.

I can't read GWs mind, but I would like to see spiders moving back to ed2 rules (spinner would be a testbed unit for that). Hawks are tricky and the shining spears value depends on the competition from the other eldar cc aspects. What if GW makes a huge change and turns the vyper into something useful? Imagine them with something like either turning back into assault (jet-)bikes (ed2 vypers had T&armor saves, no AV) or changing vector engines into a jetpack/jetbike like extra move. Jetbikes with t3(4) W2 and a 3+ save, which can fire two SC or a SC/SL and then move behind a tank wall or jetlock council for a 4+ cover save? That way you had the choice between outflanking&scouting walkers or more fragile but faster vypers.

Stahly June 9, 2010 at 10:36 AM  

In a new Eldar codex I'd like to see something like this: up to two Fire Prisms as one HS choice, Support Weapon squads become a seperate, non scoring upgrade for Guardian Defenders that doesn't take up any FO spaces. Dark Reapers maybe as Elites. Falcons as dedicated transports in the Elite section.

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